NPR’s Ari Shapiro speaks with Andrew Gregory about his late wife, Casey McIntyre, and the medical debt cancellation fund she founded before she died of ovarian cancer in early November.
Ari Shapiro, host:
Casey McIntyre was 38 years old when she died of ovarian cancer last week. After her death, a note she wrote was posted on social media. Friends, if you are reading this, it was the beginning, I passed away. The post included a photo of her with her family, her husband Andrew Gregory and her 18-month-old daughter Grace. Additionally, to celebrate my life, I created a plan to buy out someone else’s medical debt and then cancel that debt. More than 4 in 10 American households have medical debt. The nonprofit organization RIP Medical Debt is working to reduce this. Every dollar you donate helps reduce medical debt by up to $100. They buy up millions of dollars of debt at a time for a fraction of the original cost. McIntyre posted a link to RIP Medical Debt, a fund established in her honor that, as of today, has raised more than $600,000 and canceled approximately $60 million in medical debt. I have to. Now, to talk more about Casey and her debt cancellation campaign, we’re joined by her husband, Andrew Gregory. Andrew, thank you for speaking with us on Thanksgiving. Please accept my sincere condolences.
Andrew Gregory: Thank you. Thank you so much for having me on board.
SHAPIRO: Before we talk about the campaign, can you give us a snapshot of who Casey was? Reading the posts after her death, her sense of humor really came through.
Gregory: Casey was very, very, very funny. She was just a cheerful woman. From our girlfriend’s first date, she was irritating me and I was irritating her. And, frankly, we couldn’t stop laughing during her four-year battle with a stage 4 ovarian cancer diagnosis. In retrospect, that’s pretty remarkable.
SHAPIRO: She had good medical insurance. So while this fundraiser isn’t to pay off her medical debt, she was very aware that so many people in this country don’t have access to proper treatment. When did she become passionate about it? Was there some kind of personal connection to the cause?
Gregory: You know, she worked as a publisher at Penguin Random House, so she had very good corporate insurance. But frankly, as Casey met other young ovarian cancer patients on Instagram, Twitter, etc., getting ovarian cancer at just as young as Casey was diagnosed at 34 years old. That’s what people think because it’s so rare. I’m considering personal bankruptcy. People are trying to decide whether to receive care. People are focused on which bills to stop paying for their care. And Case and I were both keenly aware that while our bills weren’t zero, they were much closer to zero. They were doable for us. Others were only economically destroyed.
SHAPIRO: Was there a point in your conversation where she said, “This is what I want my legacy to be after I’m gone?” Is this what I want to happen?
Gregory: You know, last March, I saw a video online, a little viral post, of a Moravian church in Winston-Salem, North Carolina, not far from where I grew up, burning off $3 million in debt. I did. One of the things they did that was really great was all local debt. They destroyed all of the medical debt in Yadkin County, North Carolina. And I think that’s really great. And when I showed the post to Casey, they also posted it through RIP Medical Debt. And Casey and I just – I think we saw it while we were in the waiting room at Memorial Sloan Kettering. You’re just scrolling all day while waiting for chemo to start. And Casey and I said this is going to be one of our monthly donations. As you know, we do some charity work. We plan to donate to RIP Medical Debt.
Then, towards the end of May, Casey was on the verge of death. And while she was in the hospital, we came to an agreement that this is what we were going to do. And Casey was really excited about it. And she was discharged from the hospital, which was very lucky for us. At the recommendation of her oncologist, she was placed on home hospice and she was very lucky to live for six months. Sometimes when you are brushing your teeth with your loved one, and for some reason you suddenly find yourself having a much more real conversation than usual, because you are brushing your teeth. At the beginning of July, we were brushing our teeth and Casey suddenly looked at me and said, “Did you think I’d be alive in July?” And I said, “No. Absolutely not, I thought. Did you think you were alive? And she was like, oh no, definitely not. June never talked about it. but…
SHAPIRO: Wow.
GREGORY: You know, it was just luck that some of the issues that she was having, which meant she was expected to live two or three weeks once she was discharged from the hospital, were resolved and that she was able to live until November 12th. was.
SHAPIRO: So she was 38 years old. Yeah. Do you think she could have imagined that this would become so popular and raise so much money?
Gregory: I don’t think Casey could have imagined the reaction, the kind of worldwide press, but I don’t think she expected it to get any kind of attention either. But that’s outrageous to me, and I think it’s outrageous for her to write off over $60 million in medical debt. That’s unbelievable to me. And that would have been incredible for her.
SHAPIRO: Is there a way to know who you’ve helped? So obviously $60 million in medical debt is something that a lot of people have to some degree. Is there a way to know who is affected?
Gregory: Well, I had the pleasure of speaking with Alison Sesso, CEO of RIP Medical Debt. And what really, really surprised me was what I said to her: We launched this as a national movement. Is it possible to change the setting to more like New York City? – Because Casey was such a perfect New Yorker. And Alison said, Andrew, this is too much medical debt in New York City for us to buy. I feel like I need to cover a wider area. And she also said – and I don’t know what to say. But she said a letter would come. For example, each of these people will receive a letter in the mail saying that your debt is gone. For example, you will be freed from this debt. And she said, Andrew, you’re going to write part of that letter. So we have to think about what Casey was trying to say.
SHAPIRO: So each of those people…
Gregory: Yeah.
SHAPIRO: …We’ll learn about your late wife.
Gregory: Yeah.
SHAPIRO: Have you ever thought about what you’re going to say in that letter?
Gregory: I’m going to pull from what she said in my last post and some of the things I wrote about her that people can find in the obituary that I posted online.
SHAPIRO: Do you want to leave us with one more anecdote about Casey?
Gregory: Yes, this is what her mother told me last night. Casey often told me, as a publisher and publicist, that this was his greatest treasure. You’d think I’d be buttering you up. But she really said that the crowning jewel of the book’s promotional campaign was “ALL THINGS CONSIDERED,” Ari. and…
SHAPIRO: (Laughter) Andrew, I didn’t expect you to remember your late wife in a flattering way on this show.
GREGORY: But her mother, who was a young publicist, said she remembers the day she first appeared on ALL THINGS CONSIDERED and called her. And she and her mother found out that this was an important moment in Casey’s career, and that she had gotten a book about All Things Considered, and she cried on the phone. Ta. And I think it’s extraordinary that Casey’s campaign has reached so many people, and that Casey’s sense of humor has reached so many people. And thank you, Ali, for helping this work reach more people.
SHAPIRO: Well, as a publicist, I probably never mentioned her in that conversation, and it wasn’t about her. And I’m glad that we can have that kind of conversation. Andrew Gregory talks about his late wife Casey McIntyre’s medical debt cancellation fund. Thank you, Andrew, and Happy Thanksgiving.
Gregory: Thanks for having me.
SHAPIRO: And if you go to the “Rest in Peace, Medical Debt” page, you’ll find Casey McIntyre’s campaign.
(SOUNDBITE OF NITSUA SONG “NEW TORROW (FEAT. SALEEM AND TOPIX)”)
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